Episode 069 | How to Avoid Your Podcast Guest Pitch Being Rejected

When it comes to marketing your business, there are only three ways of doing this. And these are, these come under the three Bs. You can buy an audience, you can build an audience, or you can borrow an audience. And borrowing is by far the fastest way to grow your business when you're in your early days.

And I'm talking like up to your first million is absolutely doable just by borrowing audiences alone. But how do you get those people you're reaching out to and pitching to, to say yes? That's exactly what we're covering in today's episode. Hi, I'm Viv Guy, 7 figure business owner turned online mentor, on a mission to help struggling coaches and course creators to navigate the rollercoaster that is running an online business, so that you can attract dream clients and hit your enrolment and sales targets every single month, so that you can reach 6 figures and beyond.

If you are [00:01:00] ready to create a thriving and profitable podcast to accelerate your audience growth, engagement, and sales, tune in each week as I throw back the curtain and share all the insider secrets I've learned. From 20 years of entrepreneurship. You'll learn how to market, sell, and grow a thriving, sustainable online business in a way that's fun, makes you money, and allows you the freedom to thrive.

This is podcast sales made easy.

Okay, I'm gonna be honest level with you. I hate rejection. I was bullied at high school and it was awful. Like, just awful. So I have an extra added like re like rejection issue going on here. And I'm sure you know, most of us hate rejection. It's in, it is in our nature. to dislike rejection because when we were battling dinosaurs, not dinosaurs, but saber toothed tigers [00:02:00] back in our like Paleolithic and Neanderthal days, we needed to be accepted into, into our tribes, into our communities for safety and protection.

So rejection and being an outcast is not good. Uh, we are like absolutely wired to avoid it for safety in our DNA. It's in our genetics. So, when we, when it gets to pitching and reaching out to people and putting ourselves out there and making ourselves vulnerable, we avoid it at all costs. And this is why I find so many people are hiding on social media.

I've done it myself, like, let's just sit behind a keyboard and create content. Hello, we've got the keyboard warriors and trolls who just, you know, ha, I'm sure in, in person and face to face would not say what they say on social media, but they have that confidence and that anonymity. So people are going on social media to hide, really.

It's easier [00:03:00] to post content. from the comfort of your own home, from the safety of your own home, than to reach out to someone. And the reason as well is, we know from social media, from the content, that actually, well, they've brainwashed us. They admit it. There is something called brain hacking technology.

In Silicon Valley, there are billion dollar companies entirely designed and developed purely. to master brain hacking technology, which is what social media companies use. And this is why we are so dialed into and, and hooked on using social media. Because we get dopamine, endorphin, and crazily, oxytocin hits.

Oxytocin being the drug that babies and new mums like, uh, having a new baby creates in a mum, that oxytocin hit. It's absolutely bonkers. But because we get those hits when we get validation, when somebody likes a post, views a video, Comments on a post. We are [00:04:00] absolutely stuck in and feel safe in that world of social media, even if it's not getting us the results.

And this is where one of my favorite lines from a coach years ago was, Choose your heart. You've got a choice. Like, do you want to stay where you are or do you want to change things? Because it's not going to be, it's not going to feel easy necessarily. And sometimes we've got to step into the uncomfortable.

And that uncomfortable is peeling yourself away from that keyboard and putting yourself out there to face rejection. But that rejection, for every no, there is a yes coming. We've got to go through the no's. We're never going to, and I just want you to kind of go into this thinking, right, you want to pitch to be a guest on podcasts, in people's memberships, masterminds, on their retreats, whatever.

You have to be open and receptive to the fact that you're going to get no's. And it is not a [00:05:00] personal attack on you. It is not because people are like, you suck! It is because it's just a no. Either maybe it's not the right timing, maybe it's a duplication of what they've already had, maybe it's too close to what they do themselves.

Maybe it's timing. Maybe it just doesn't like with podcasting. Maybe they've stopped doing guesting for a while. Maybe they've gone for solo episodes. So I really want you to get into and think about. And just change this mentality of, it's okay. At least with the no's, you know, I know that I'm actually doing the work and getting myself out there.

And there will be a yes coming. Now, there might be a ton of no's before you get to that yes. And it's just about staying consistent. And sometimes it's about actually saying, okay, right, I've had 20 no's on, 20 no's in a row now. What do I need to change? Like, maybe it's time we had a look at what was going on.

But we can't do that after one, two, or even five pitches. We've got to have the data there. It's the same with everything. [00:06:00] It's the same with ads performance. It's the same with webinar performance. It's the same with sales calls conversions. You have to have enough data, enough metric information, before we can make assumptions as to do things need changing.

So I just want to put that out there at the beginning because it's really, really important and I get it. I am that person that does not like rejection, but I'm okay with it now. And I want you to know that when I started pitching myself as a guest, I sucked. I really sucked. I, yeah, I got rejections. I got lots of rejections.

And when I did get accepted, they were on shows that were so misaligned for me, but I was just so happy. And I want you to be aware of this. I want you to be selective. So you may get yeses, but they might not be the right shows. I don't even want you pitching to the wrong shows, but you may still get people kind of reaching out to you saying, Hey, do [00:07:00] you want to be a guest eventually?

And they're not going to be the right shows. I don't want you to just say yes, because it gives you the endorphin, uh, the dopamine hit, okay? I want you to be selective. So let's dive in and talk about the reasons your pitches, as a guest, are getting rejected. Number one, you make your pitch all about you.

You've been told to kind of big yourself up, you, you know, you don't want to get rejected. So you make this pitch all about how freaking awesome you are. Your accolades, your credentials, your experience, your, the transformations you've created for your clients and helped them achieve. Like you, you make it all about you.

Like I am amazing. Like I've got all this like, wonderful stuff, and I think you know, I, and I'd be a great guest for you, like wanna talk so you make a pitch about you. But if you have a podcast or if you are considering a podcast, then here's [00:08:00] the one thing that you're really interested in. Two things.

Number one, downloads. You wanna know that you are getting the downloads. You are very con conscious. And always thinking about growth. How can I grow more? How can I get more people listening to my podcast? And you are hugely passionate about providing value for your listeners. Okay. You really want to make sure that, because we want to create value.

We want to give people something that's going to keep them tuning in and listening because that is what is going to retain our listeners. And maintain our downloads. So we wanna, and we wanna give value, we wanna transform lives. We are here, we are in business as coaches and course creators because we are passionate about bringing about change for people, about positive impact, about helping people move away from their pain to that desired place.[00:09:00] 

So we want content that is going to be powerful. So your podcast pitch is often rejected because you're not dialing in to these elements, okay? So, I want you to be thinking about, like, what problem do you solve? Like, why are you a good fit specifically for their audience? That is the big thing. The value, the problem you solve, the value that you bring, and why you are a good fit for their audience.

That's how we want to open a pitch. The other thing is as well, I want you to be really conscious on the opening of your pitch. What I see so often, and I was guilty of this, I really was, Well, I was guilty of so many things. I was guilty of so many things. I was very formal. Because of like, my, like, entrepreneurial journey, and I don't know, I think I've just always written quite formally because I [00:10:00] think people taught me that's how I should, you know, write.

And that meant, like, they were very business like, which was a bit Um, and I want you to sort of imagine, like, if you met somebody in real life at an event, like, how would you connect with them? How would you speak to them? You know, and this is what we lose so often within our emails, and they're very formal, and I literally will bin those that are, like, too formal, um, because it feels like they're just coming from some sort of executive assistant or something, or team.

Anyway, so, I digress slightly. So, the second thing is Are you getting to the point? I'm guessing you, as a coaching course creator, are a busy freaking person. Well, the person you're pitching to is also a very, very busy person. Okay? Their time is precious. They do not want to have to trawl through an email, [00:11:00] an email, a pitch, your pitch.

Try to figure out what you're asking for. Like, what do you want? And I see this so often, like, where people, and I'm like, okay, like, just, and I say this to my kids, like, my kids, my eldest went through a phase of this, like, was it last summer, summer before, and she'd come up to me and she'd be like, Oh, mommy, I'm so hot.

And I'd be like, okay. Um, and my mouth's really hot. And I'd say, okay, well, have a drink of water. No, no, I don't want water. I'd be like, okay, do you like some juice? No, no, I think I need something cold. And I'd be like, okay, cold, fine. And I'd say, are you asking me for an ice lolly? And she'd say, yes. So I'd say, can you just get to the point?

And it's something I've had to work on with my kids. They can be a little like, Dancing Around The Thing, Fearful Of Asking For It. And I say to them, look, the answer is going to be yes or no. Yes or no, but let's get to the point, let's not beat about the bush. [00:12:00] And that is the same with your pitch. You need to open strong and be really clear, like, within that first couple of sentences, what this email is about.

What is this email about? So they know. So they're like, okay, they can switch their brain into, right. Okay, it's a podcast guest pitch. Now I know what I'm reading, I'm not having to decipher. Because we know, remember, the confused mind says no. It goes without marketing, and it goes without pitching. Number three.

Value, okay? Value. What is in it for them? What is the benefit for them? And I have a lot of people come to me who, when we talk about pitching, and they say, I'm really worried because, like, I, like, I don't have anything to offer. Well, you are valuable in yourself, but I want you to share the benefit to them.

So what can you offer? And this generally, think about back to point number one, what are they [00:13:00] interested in? Downloads and growth. Downloads and growth. So share, be very specific or explicit. I'm going to share you to my email list of You know, women over 50, my email list of 2, 000 people 2, 000 women over 50 So it's very specific.

I'm going to share you with my, uh, I'm going to create two dedicated Instagram reels or Posts specifically on this I'm going to do a Facebook Live. What is it you're going to do? So I want you to be really clear what is the value for them. And it doesn't matter if your audience is, audience is not big.

If you've got an audience of a hundred, if you've got an email list of a hundred people, awesome! Awesome! Because I know, what the reach is. I know that like, open rates are pretty good on emails, but, oh, they're massively good. Like, we know the ROI of [00:14:00] social media is a 40 pounds for every one pound spent.

Your time is money, so even if you're not spending money on ads, don't worry. So you get a 40, 40 pounds for every one pound spent ROI on email, versus just 28 pence, 28 pennies for every one pound invested. on social media. So we know, like, email's where it's at. So if people tell me they're showing on their email list, I am there.

You got 100 people on your email list, I don't care. Because 100 people, I know, you know, around 40 percent of those, let's say 30 to 40 percent of those people are going to open an email. So that's me getting seen and visible to more people. So you need to show them what the value is. Like how you can reciprocate.

Can you invite them onto your podcast? Get them exposure because you're then going to share that with your audience. Suddenly, you know, they're getting seen by more people. You don't have a podcast yet? Fine. Instagram live, Facebook live. What can you do with them just to give them more visibility? Get more [00:15:00] eyes on their podcast.

Number four. You have not tailored the pitch to them. You have downloaded one of these god awful form template pitches, and I did it myself in the early days, and they sucked. And actually when I developed my own pitching template, wow, like it was transformational, transformational. In fact, I also developed and got a 100 percent success rate for my request and my pitch to invite guests onto my show.

Um, and I was inviting some big players out there. I mean, I had Leonie Dawson, who's made like over 11 million dollars in her business. And, you know, her team came back and they were like, I hadn't even launched the podcast at that point, and they're like, right, right, well, how many downloads do you have or are you expecting to get, like, what's the reach, what's the visibility, because Leonie literally has very limited time, she'd do like one episode a week, one guesting thing a week, [00:16:00] so she's giving you her time, We want to make sure like it's going to get some, some reach.

Um, so I had a really strong pitch template, but my response to that, I was able to go back. I didn't, you know, I think I just went, not a freaking clue. Um, but here's what I can give. And so she said, yes. But anyway, again, I digress slightly. I want you to be a Really developing and crafting something tailored and specific to them, not a blanket pitch.

I want you to have, like, looked into their values, like, what do they do? What are they passionate about? I want you to look at the episodes, like, go and have a look at their podcast, look at the way they format their episode titles, the type of and the topics they're talking about, the type of guests they're bringing on, so that you have an understanding, so you can craft your pitch in such a way that it resonates and lands with them.

And this is really going to improve your [00:17:00] chances of not getting rejected, because you're not going to replicate and duplicate what they've already talked about. Of course, the body of your talk, your signature content, that you've crafted, because we've talked about this before, you're generally going to create one epic, high converting, Signature talk with key points.

that relate to what you do, to your signature, uh, single core offer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're not going to get into all of that in this episode, but everything's going to be crafted. However, we can shift the angle of our talk and our pitch so that it aligns with that host's show. And then when we come in and talk, we angle our, and, and position our Signature content in a way that aligns with that show.

So I really want you to think about, you know, Yes, I know you want to save time, but I want you to think actually It is [00:18:00] better to spend an hour crafting a really good pitch and really researching somebody. at a good hour, with the chance of getting a yes. Because imagine if they've got an audience of 5, 000 people, an email list of 5, 000 people, and every week they share their newest podcast episode with that audience.

5, 000 people have just discovered that you exist. They've got their podcast audience and listeners, who have now just discovered that you exist when you get a yes. So what is it worth? What is it worth? If someone said to you, You've got an audience of 5, 000 of your dream clients coming to this theatre today, of this stadium.

You would be, you would do everything in your power to get in front of that audience. You, you know, they're saying, you know, we're considering you, or you've maybe got this [00:19:00] option, but you've got to apply. You're going to work your ass off to craft this thing, this, this pitch. Because you're like, I want in front of those people, because I know when those people hear from me, they are gonna want to buy from me, because I know what I do is like transformational.

And I want you to think of every pitch like that, like giving it your all to get in front of those 2, 000, whatever number size audience they have, okay? And now I know you're gonna say, but Viv, how do I know? We can sometimes gauge, sometimes through social media, we can also have a look at their global rankings.

So let's just have a quick moment just to talk about global rankings, okay? So if your, or rankings, if your new episode gets within seven days of its release more than 32 downloads, 32 downloads, you're in the top 50 percent of podcasts. If you get more [00:20:00] than 122 downloads, you're in the top 25 percent of podcasts.

If you get more than 484 downloads, you're in the top 10 percent of podcasts. More than 1, 153, you're in the top 5 percent and more than 5, 277 downloads, you're in the top 1 percent of podcasts. So, that is a good idea to kind of gauge how many listeners they have for an episode, okay? Just to give you a basis to kind of think, okay, well, what am I aiming for?

So I think that's a really useful sort of stat to, to kind of go when you're thinking like how much energy and effort should I give this podcast, this pitch? Personally, I feel that every pitch should have your effort, your energy, your full commitment. If you're going in, give them your best. Because that podcast may be small [00:21:00] now, but no telling, they might be brand new.

Who's to say where they will be in six months time? Think about, they may have 5, 000 downloads. An episode in 12 months time. 5, 000 people might be list, like, discovering your episode content from a year ago. two years ago. So give it your all. Okay, the next point, I'm not sure what number we're up to now, are we on number five?

Is your subject line. Okay, your subject line. Is it clear? Now subject lines are something I have really had a love hate relationship with my entire content creation career. Knowing like what to say to actually grab attention. And it's something I've worked on and it's a, it's a forever work in progress.

And I think it should be for everybody. But if your subject line is misleading or not clear, then this is, this is like [00:22:00] your first barrier. This is the first obstacle where your pitch will fall down, okay, because it might not even get an open. So let's be really, really clear within our subject line that A, it's a podcast guest pitch, okay, and what, you know, we want to grab them.

I want them to be like, oh, that's interesting. As a host, I want it to be interesting. I want someone to, I love it actually, I really truly love it when I see an email and I'm like that ooh, ooh, that sounds interesting, or I want to see, I want to know more, tell me more because it's got me hooked. And this is what your subject line needs to be, but it does need to be clear.

I'm not for kind of going for like bait and switch, misleading, like it was, it seemed like something else and then I opened it and actually you're just pitching me and I do not want to be pitch slapped with a form freaking copy email. [00:23:00] I, I get so many from people who are obviously podcast agents for people who've never freaking podcast because they are pitching someone who's a global executive of something that is entirely unrelated.

to my ideal client, to my audience, and it would be of no value, and it's a form freaking email. It's, I just, ugh, I hate them. They go straight in the bin. I don't read them. I want you to think about the emails that you get to your inbox where you just cannot resist opening them because you're like, you are so curious.

You're interested. So this is what I want you to think about with creating and crafting your subject line. Don't, I used to make the mistake of literally banging in an email subject line at the start, before I'd even written the body content. Subject lines should come last, and I want you to craft three to five subject lines, [00:24:00] variations of subject lines first, to find out and discover the one that's going to pop the most.

Okay, number six. Mistake number six, you do not follow up. Remember right back to the beginning and I talked about our fear of rejection. You know, and bringing in those, I didn't talk about this at the beginning, but what happens when we get rejected? It brings in like, we experience like, we have like cortisol.

Um, I think that's the hormone cortisol, like, just floods our system, we get all that stress hormone, we feel really, ah, anxious and rejected, and it's not nice. All the good hormones that we love, that we get from social media posts that do well, and get people commenting and approving of us, they're gone.

We don't experience them. So you don't hear anything, you pitch, you put in your all, you've done all the stuff, and you don't get a response. So you take that as rejection. But what we need to [00:25:00] remember, guys, is people are busy, busy, busy! Like, how do we actually run our own businesses? Like, how often do you see something in your inbox and think, I'll come back to it?

I mean, I've just spent a week in hospital with my daughter. So, can I remember anything that was in my inbox that I probably needed to action from a week ago? No, I cannot. And no, I am not the zero inbox person. I'm terrible. I hoard. I'm a hoarder. But I do categorize. Everything goes into subfolders. But I still have an inbox that needs a good clear out.

But I cannot. Think of that. And actually, and because I've had a week away from the business, like, I'm kind of playing catch up now. So anything that was there, if it wasn't urgent, like, it's not in my brain, it's not getting dealt with. And the people you are pitching to are busy people. They are running amazing businesses.

You are running an amazing business. It just might not be where you want it to be yet. And it might be where you want [00:26:00] it to be, but because pitching is part of your strategy, it's part of my strategy. It is an ongoing part of my strategy. So we are busy people and I want you to remember that and I want you to remember this is not a personal like dig at you.

So follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up. I'm gonna say it a million times because this is where so many people miss opportunities within business. They do not follow up. You do not follow up on pitches. You do not follow up with leads. And inquiries, you just don't follow up.

And I want you to make this commitment to yourself. I want you to schedule a time spot in your diary. 15, 20 minutes every single day. Do it as the first thing. If this is the thing that you're stuck at, do it first. Put 15 to 20 minutes in every day to follow up. Follow up with leads. Follow up with inquiries.

Follow up with conversations. Follow up with opportunities like this, okay? [00:27:00] So if you have not heard you're gonna follow up not just once you're gonna follow up twice and on that final follow up You're gonna say like sure. Okay, you know, I don't want to keep bombarding your inbox if I don't hear from you I'll assume like it's a no for now.

That's it If you get a no, you'd be gracious You thank them for their time for considering it and you let them know you're available in the future But remember, people are busy, so follow up, guys, really do follow up. Pitching well is just another skill that you need to master and develop. It's something that I have been doing now for, oh, I'm gonna say three, three, yeah, three years now.

Um, and I want you to, like, really consider, like, your, your whole approach to pitching, your mindset when it comes to pitching. But if you're someone that says, I don't want to faff around and take like a year of like failed pitches to get where I [00:28:00] need to get to, then I really want to invite you to hop on a call with me and talk about this because this is one of our modules within the Conversion Cure mentorship program that I run, okay?

It's just one of our modules. Now, I do run a workshop every single month where you can find out a lot more about the Conversion Cure Mentorship Program, which for short we call TCC. Um, so if you're interested in TCC, then obviously please do come along to one of those workshops. You can find out more at vivguide.

com forward slash workshop. But right now, if you're thinking, Viv, I want to know more, I want to kind of crack on and get a grip on this, then you can. By all means book in a call with me. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about what needs to happen, what needs to change in your business to get your audience growth like moving forward, to get the momentum there, to get the conversions happening, the sales coming in, and to get the engagement on your content.

And if you want to do that, just [00:29:00] apply for a call with me. They are free of charge. It's you and me, 45 minutes, my eyes on your business. Just head on over to vivguy. com forward slash apply. That's vivguy. com forward slash apply. I am here for you every step of the way. I've got you covered. I know what it's like to do this alone and you do not have to do this alone.

I'm here. Keep checking in. And don't forget to tune in next episode because we are going deeper on this topic. We are talking about what to do when you've got a yes, when you are in there as a guest. And you're giving your best stuff. How do we get the conversions? How do we get people booking in calls, joining your email list, and wanting to know more about you and how to work with you?

Well, we're going to dive deeper into this in our next episode.